I have a few friends who have so much pride, there is just no way they would be willing to let it go even just once.

I suspect that the sentiment comes from the heart of the culture that believes that winning isn’t the most important thing, it’s the only thing, and the zero-sum game is the only game in town.

Regarding the difference when an audience is present – very good point, which I hadn’t considered

I do see the value in arguing points. First of all, you can’t let some issues like pushing creationism into schools go unchallenged. Second, if there’s a public audience like say an online forum, the argument is not so much for converting your opponent or in any way “defeating” him, but for the sake of the onlookers. I know I venture into places where they don’t experience anyone thinking different from themselves so it’s valuable to them to hear my views. Lastly, the experience of arguing something strengthens your knowledge of an issue.

I have come face to face with the “we’ll have to agree to disagree” line when I’ve felt I’ve put forth a stronger argument and yes, it’s frustrating. If one one one, I’ll let it go but if there’s an audience, I won’t because it sends the message that both sides are equally viable when in the case of creationism vs evolution in science class for instance, they are not.

I wholeheartedly agree. Perhaps some enjoy that sort of thing. I never relished the idea of HAVING to go out and convert the world to xianity. So, I’m damn sure not interested in converting others to materialism – as liberating and wonderful a worldview as it might be.

A debate is a competition in which two parties, or teams, present their ideas for an audience to judge. A discussion is a conversation in which the parties themselves judge one another’s ideas. Let’s stop using the word “debate” every time we mean “disagreement.” Those of us who spend so much time debating need to ask ourselves, what audience have we swayed? I don’t know about anyone else in the Atheosphere, but I’m willing to admit that I’ve scored damn few points persuading religionists to renounce their silliness. On the other hand, I have persuaded some of them to listen to my views and try to understand why their pious fervor sometimes infringes on my freedom. That understanding could result in real political change.

I just don’t see it as my mission to hawk atheism to people who don’t want to hear what I have to say. Those atheists who act as if they’re Darwin’s Witnesses need to put their energies to more practical use than figuratively knocking on doors.

Religion, whether we like it or not, IS different because so much of a believer’s own self is invested in it.

Very true, but you could argue that this is all the more reason to be honest. The more siginificane a belief has for the individual, the more important it is that it’s true.

compare:

“You’re worshiping a damn lie with no more factual evidence than the loch ness monster…and perhaps even less. At least we have fotos of old Nessie…” (Do I think that? Yes.)
vs.
“I just don’t feel there’s sufficient corroborating historical evidence for the events described in the NT/OT/Koran for me to take the claims at face value. I am deeply disturbed by the passages that depict god ordering the slaughter of innocent human beings, children, etc…”

I think a focus on our own reasons and experiences, rather than a blunt force frontal assault on others is helpful.

I agree completely. It is important that we show respect and sensitivity while engaging theists. Sometimes when they do not recipricote it’s hard not to stoop to their level, but I admit it’s important to try. I always think the best comments in the face of provocation are the ones where we don’t rise to the bait, and keep our composure.

btw-I don’t at all get the sense that you beat anyone over the head. So, this is just a friendly discussion about methodology. If you disagree, that’s OK

Lol. To be honest, I do agree with you on this.

@ The Exterminator

You know, tobe, I think we’re basically saying exactly the same thing. Let’s agree to agree.

Lol. That works for me

I’ll check out your post and comment on it.

I’ve jumped off from this post in a post of my own, showing a real-life practical application of agreeing to disagree. You might enjoy reading it.